Posts by Sea Breeze

Anybody Else Think JW Salvation Is Like This?

by Sea Breeze in

"you may be concealed in the day of jehovah's anger"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zyg4zbcopq&ab_channel=phildavisontv.

Sea Breeze

"You may be concealed in the day of Jehovah's anger"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZYg4ZbcOPQ&ab_channel=PhilDavisonTV

92

Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"

by aqwsed12345 in

the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.

the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).

he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.

Sea Breeze

@Rattigan

At death the circuits are turned off. Like when you turn your computer off, the RAM loses power and everything in memory is gone.

In your reasoning example above, you are still pre-supposing that the material body is all there is to man. If your presumption is true, you would have a point. But scripture says we are soul, body & spirit.... so your reasoning fails becasue of a false assumption.

Additionally, the bible gives its own definition of "death: "as her soul was departing (for she died), that she called his name Ben-Oni" - Gen. 25: 18

Clearly, when the soul is separated from a body - you are dead. Many other scriptures quoting Jesus shows that souls are fully conscious, though dead. Rev. 6: 9-11 shows dead souls, talking, feeling, remembering and being comforted by God.

You already likely believe in many things that are not physical. Things like, numbers, logic, laws of physics, ideas, etc. How much does an empty hard drive weigh? How much does the same hard drive weigh when the memory is full? Answer: The same. Information has no mass.

Since, you already believe many things are real that are not physical, ie., have no mass, weight or volume, why would you assume that such a commomnly accepted concept is inappropriate to the bible, especially since it is filled with descriptions to the contrary?

Does it disturb you that you will still be conscious for eternity after your body expires?

55

If JW is not the truth, then what is the true religion?

by TxNVSue2023 in

even though i'm disfellowshiped ( & i belive wrongfully so).

i still belive this is the truth.

i have been d'f for about 8 months now and working on reinstatement.

Sea Breeze

First of all, no where are we told to seek a specific association of believers. But over and over Jesus said "Come to me" :

Luk_14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Joh_5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Joh_6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

That last scripture indicates that you would have gotten better treament from Jesus than you did at the KH. Maybe try what Jesus said to do first, before trying to find a place to go.

18

The Messianic Prophecies and Their Fulfillment in Jesus

by aqwsed12345 in

the belief in the messiah, which has lived in the collective consciousness of humanity since ancient times, became completely obscured among the gentiles, and only remained with the jewish people, who were later chosen by god, as the prophecies of the prophets kept it alive.

there was only one great promise in the old testament from god, which awaited fulfillment!

only one great desire was there in the old testament on the part of man, longing for satisfaction.

Sea Breeze

God in the Old Testament

God in the New Testament

I AM (Exodus 3:14–15; Isaiah 48:12)

The Shepherd (Psalm 23:1)

The Light (Psalm 27:1)

The Rock (Psalm 18:2)

Ruler of all (Isaiah 9:6)

Judge of all nations (Joel 3:12)

The Bridegroom (Isaiah 62:5; Hosea 2:16)

God’s Word never passes away (Is. 40:8)

The Sower (Jeremiah 31:27; Ezra 34:9)

First and the Last (Isaiah 48:12)

Creator of all things (Neh. 9: 6)

God our Savior (Is. 43: 11)

I AM (John 8:58)

The Shepherd (John 10:11)

The Light (John 8:12)

The Rock (Matthew 7:24)

Ruler of all (Matthew 28:18)

Judge of all (John 5:22)

The Bridegroom (Matthew 25:1)

Jesus’ words never pass away (Mark 13:31)

The Sower (Matthew 13:3–9)

First and the Last (Revelation 1:17–18)

Creator of all things (John 1: 3)

God our Savior (2 Peter 1:1)

92

Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"

by aqwsed12345 in

the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.

the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).

he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.

Sea Breeze

Either Ecclesiastes is inspired or not. You cant have it both ways. If inspired, it is the inerrant word of God. If not, your Bible is corrupt and the whole falls with the part. If inspired, then the dead truly know not anything, or Holy Spirit lied.

@vienne

As already pointed out the term "under the sun" appears 29 times in the book of Ecclesiastes so that people wouldn't get the wrong ideas. It was helpful to me when I was examining the WT "proof scripture" to view all 29 instances in order, at the same time. Here they are for your perusal:

Ecc_1:3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?

Ecc_1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Ecc_1:14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.

Ecc_2:11 Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun.

Ecc_2:17 Therefore I hated life; because the work that is wrought under the sun is grievous unto me: for all is vanity and vexation of spirit.

Ecc_2:18 Yea, I hated all my labour which I had taken under the sun: because I should leave it unto the man that shall be after me.

Ecc_2:19 And who knoweth whether he shall be a wise man or a fool? yet shall he have rule over all my labour wherein I have laboured, and wherein I have shewed myself wise under the sun. This is also vanity.

Ecc_2:20 Therefore I went about to cause my heart to despair of all the labour which I took under the sun.

Ecc_2:22 For what hath man of all his labour, and of the vexation of his heart, wherein he hath laboured under the sun?

Ecc_3:16 And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there.

Ecc_4:1 So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and they had no comforter; and on the side of their oppressors there was power; but they had no comforter.

Ecc_4:3 Yea, better is he than both they, which hath not yet been, who hath not seen the evil work that is done under the sun.

Ecc_4:7 Then I returned, and I saw vanity under the sun.

Ecc_4:15 I considered all the living which walk under the sun, with the second child that shall stand up in his stead.

Ecc_5:13 There is a sore evil which I have seen under the sun, namely, riches kept for the owners thereof to their hurt.

Ecc_5:18 Behold that which I have seen: it is good and comely for one to eat and to drink, and to enjoy the good of all his labour that he taketh under the sun all the days of his life, which God giveth him: for it is his portion.

Ecc_6:1 There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, and it is common among men:

Ecc_6:12 For who knoweth what is good for man in this life, all the days of his vain life which he spendeth as a shadow? for who can tell a man what shall be after him under the sun?

Ecc_8:9 All this have I seen, and applied my heart unto every work that is done under the sun: there is a time wherein one man ruleth over another to his own hurt.

Ecc_8:15 Then I commended mirth, because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat, and to drink, and to be merry: for that shall abide with him of his labour the days of his life, which God giveth him under the sun.

Ecc_8:17 Then I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labour to seek it out, yet he shall not find it; yea further; though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it.

Ecc_9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Ecc_9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Ecc_9:9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.

Ecc_9:11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

Ecc_9:13 This wisdom have I seen also under the sun, and it seemed great unto me:

Ecc_10:5 There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, as an error which proceedeth from the ruler:

After reading all these, it is obvious that the scope and primary view of Ecclesiastes is "under the sun", "this life", this physical body etc.

A dead body, rotting under the sun, in "this life" knows nothing at all....just like scripture says in Eccl. 9: 9 "that is thy portion in this life"

But your consciousness is eternal, just like dozens of other scriptures and especially Jesus himself confirms.

By the way, you never answered why you don't except the limited scope of Ecclesiastes 10:19 - "money is the answer for everthing" while rejecting the limited scope of the statement of "the dead know nothing at all"?

The bible is a not a buffet where a person can just willy nilly decide which scriptures to put on their plate and which ones to reject because they don't seem palatable.

92

Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"

by aqwsed12345 in

the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.

the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).

he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.

Sea Breeze

A baby doesn't have to do anything to be "born". It's the parents who did the "something", not the kid.

@EP,

Being born again involves grace and faith.... "by grace through faith". One is the work of God, the other is the work of man. Babies are obviously incapable of belief or faith. So, I fail to see much of a correlation in your analogy. But, here's rub. When we choose to believe Jesus, there is an automatic cost involved.

The Romans brought a great deal of law and order to many lands. It wasn't perfect by any means, but at least there was a template for relative peace. What was the cost? It was the Roman tax. It was only a small percentage of your income. In return, you got a Roman garrison and a legion if necessary to quell invading armies, maurading bands, murderers etc. It was called the "Roman Peace" or Pax Romana. If you paid the tax, you got peace.

Everyone in the Roman empire was very familiar with this cost for peace. Indeed, even Jesus reccommended that people pay the tax. It is with this familiar scenario where a percentage of your income is paid in exchange for peace that Jesus lays out his terms for peace as earth's newly arrived King.

Luke 14: 31 “Or what king, going to wage war against another king, does not sit down first and take counsel whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 Otherwise, while the other is yet at a distance, he sends a delegation and requests conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, any of you who does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

This must have been shocking to people who were used to only paying a percentage of their works in exchange for peace... For Jesus, the true cost wasn't 25% or 50% or even 95%. His stated terms for peace was very simple: ALL OF IT.

To be born again, it will cost you all of your pride, all of your works, possibly all of your family, certainly all of your dignity as you look to a cursed man hanging on a tree for salvation.

This is Jesus' terms for peace and a prerequisite for being born again. Once this transaction between Jesus and the believer has been conducted, the believer is born again with a new spirit. A spirit which cannot sin. Because of this new spirit, the believer possesses a "knowing" that he will live as long as Jesus lives. The two destinies are eternally entertwined together and a person can absolutely know that they are saved.

Only then can a person let loose and allow themselves to absorb the full implications of eternal consciousness.

Are you born again Easy Prompt?

92

Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"

by aqwsed12345 in

the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.

the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).

he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.

Sea Breeze

People will say of the dead, " rest in peace" or "they aren't suffering anymore" and at the same time say ,"mother is in heaven watching over me" ( can't be both )

@enoughisenough

Sure they can. And the reason is that they believe the bible where it describes man as a tripartite being in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 & Hebrews 4:12.

When Christians die, they are quite literally in two places at the same time. The body is decaying in the earth and the spirit/soul is with the Lord.

"absent from the body, present with the Lord"

The redifinitions installed by the WT are very hard to get rid of. That is why they call it a cult.

Again, I'm not saying that you or anyone else has to believe the bible. But you should take the time to understand what you are rejecting to see if it is really your wish to do so and not just some default response to deception.

92

Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"

by aqwsed12345 in

the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.

the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).

he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.

Sea Breeze

@EasyPrompt,

I couldn't help but notice that your posts are completely void of any attempt to address the many scriptures I provided that challenge your assumptions.

I know this is uncomfortable for you. It's supposed to be. Once the WT lies are irradicated, a person will naturally want to seek safety in the way prescribed in scripture - getting born again.

John 3 - "[Nicodemus] came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him." Just being impressed with Jesus isn't enough for eternal life. Salvation is not an intellectual exercise. You cannot get to where you need to go using intellect alone. Jesus explains:

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Three times in the conversation Jesus tells Nicodemus that a person must be born again. This requires abandonment of your first birth and all the works from the first life as well:

Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. - Romans 4

92

Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"

by aqwsed12345 in

the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.

the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).

he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.

Sea Breeze

Yes, SeaBreeze, I do realize your statement "Yes" on having been to heaven and back is a contradiction.
John 3:13 - "Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man."

@EastPrompt

You are running into problems again using your WT installed re-definitions and assumptions on the nature of man. As I pointed out before - the bible claims we are a tripartite being constituted of soul, body & spirit in:

1 Thessalonians 5:23

Hebrews 4:12

A "man" is constituted of fallen soul, body and spirit. If any of those are missing, then that component is not a "man". But "you" can stil go to heaven.... because in the bible, both the soul and the spirit are characterized as personhood using pronouns and consciousness to describe those components as "you".

Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

See how in the above scripture the "person" departing is separate from the body? Here, God equates personhood with spirit:

1 Co_14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth

And of course this verse decribes a person as being either in the body or out of the body:

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise - 2 Cor. 12: 2

The materialism ideas that the WT taught us are not biblical. They were installed by the WT using sophisticated indoctrination techniques and can take many years to finally shed.

Regardless of where our consciousness ends up, we will always be conscious for ever, and ever, and ever and ever. That is why scripture asks us to not just be causal participants in Christianity but move on to the point where a person absolutely knows where they will spend eternity. And, yes a person can KNOW for sure where they will spend eternity. That provides a great deal of comfort as we begin to shed worldly ideas and philosophies and realize that we will always be conscious:

1 John 5:13
"that you may know that you have eternal life"

This is not just consciousness. "Life" here is indicative of a glorified body, together with your soul and spirit all together for eternity. Remember, the definition of death is separation of the components of man (Gen. 35: 18)

"we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him" - 1 John 3: 2-3

And, how was Jesus when he ascended? He was in his own glorified body, soul and spirit - fully "man".

A person can know their destiny for sure. It is really the only way to keep from suppressing the enormity and reality of our eternal consciousness.

92

Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"

by aqwsed12345 in

the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.

the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).

he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.

Sea Breeze

Have you been there?

Yes.

Jesus had been there. He never said anything about all that jazz. Jesus gave that vision to John in Revelation.

You do realize the statement above is a total contridiction?